A number of motorists have expressed their anger to Saddleworth News over the positioning of a speed camera van at Scouthead.
They claim the van, which regularly parks up on the A62 near the quarry entrance, is purely to catch speeding motorists for financial gain and not safety reasons.
Last week an angry driver placed a hand-written sign at the roadside warning motorists of the speed trap ahead.
The motorist, who wished to remain anonymous, told us he thought the van would be better off parked in the villages or nearer more heavily populated areas.
Speaking to the editor, he said: “Why park up on a long clear stretch of road trying to catch people for going ten miles an hour over the speed limit?
“There are hardly any people walking around here or crossing the road, and visibility is good in front and there are no parked cars. Surely it would be better in the centre of Uppermill or Delph?”
The van has been parked on Huddersfield road several times over the last few months. It appears to be targeting drivers heading up from Delph towards Oldham.
Heath Pemberton, Neighbourhood Road Policing Manager for Greater Manchester Police told Saddleworth News: “This is a community concern site and is operated by the Traffic Police Community Support Officers (TPCSOs).
“The TPCSOs are carrying out enforcement with the approval of Oldham Council, who identified this site for safety camera enforcement in view of speed surveys carried out and the number of collisions in the vicinity and gave their approval to target the problem at this specific location.
“Also, I must point out that the TPCSO’s are performing their role with the full authority of the Chief Constable.”
A local business owner thought the van was placed in the right area and said: “They do come speeding up from Delph and there was a bad accident a couple of years ago at the crossroads near the Star Inn pub.
“This has always been a dangerous spot. Maybe a roundabout would be better?”
Karen Delaney, Communications Officer, Greater Manchester Casualty Reduction Partnership, said: “The primary objective for safety camera deployment is to reduce deaths and injuries on the roads by reducing the level and severity of speeding.
“The aim is to do this by preventing, detecting and enforcing speed offences, which includes encouraging changed driver behaviour by the use of safety camera activity.”
A sign placed at the roadside by a motorist. Photo: Stuart Littleford.
This van has been there for several months on and off!
I was caught doing 38mph in November 2011 and unfortunatley got 3 points on my licence and a fine and my insurance has gone up. I admit i was speeding, but as pointed out it is a clear stretch with little housing.
I now drive at 30mph (this speeding offence obviously worked) but i get cars overtaking me now! I was caught coming up from Oldham and the van was just up from the garage.
I see people all over speeding in town (oldham/ashton/manchester), not wearing seatbelts, kids and babies on laps, using mobile phones all very dangerous activities. If they want to make money just sit in town and open their eyes, they will make a fortune!!!!!!!!
Don’t speed and you won’t get caught. Speeding is a criminal offence. Simple really.
I was flashed on this stretch of road doing 36mph and was fuming when the letter popped on my door matt. I consider myself a sensible driver but this stretch of road is exactly as the article described, free from parked cars, population and is a very clear stretch of road. I now drive at 30mph and on numerous occasions I have been overtaken or aggressively tailgated the limit needs changing
‘purely to catch speeding motorists for financial gain and not safety reasons’.
Irrelevant. You will only get a fine *if you are speeding*. You are in control of whether you are speeding or not. Only one person to blame. Accept that you’ve been a bit silly and move on.
“lizzie”, This is right next to a SCHOOL.
You were speeding, You got caught, You got a consequence. LIVE WITH IT AND QUIT WHINGING.
You then do the absolutely typical response “but look, other people are breaking the law too”.
Yes, and they should ALSO be caught and fined.
I’ve never in 20 years of driving had a speeding or parking ticket.
Because I don’t go around breaking the law.
The last line is cast iron evidence that this LIE about being “money making schemes” is simply untrue.
If they were to generate money they could find hundreds of far far more lucrative places to sit.
Rather blows that feeble arguement out of the water and remember it the next time you hear someone raise it.
It’s funny seeing the picture above. ANYONE speeding in those conditions (i.e foggy) deserved to be caught and is a selfish arsehole.
30 is 30 for a reason.
80% survival rate.
40mph
80% death rate
So what you’re saying is we cannot question this pointless camera van just because driving 34mph is a criminal offence? Our tin-pot government wants to squeeze every penny from us & cares more about someone doing 34mph on a long stretch of road than the many other more serious crimes going on. If you phone the police to report anti-social behaviour they don’t care but god forbid someone may go slightly over the speed limit… they’re all over it!! This is the country we live in folks, enjoy it while you can because it’ll soon be on the scrap heap.
John
someone had to state the obvious so well done. The complaint is about best use of limited resource. Of course we should all keep within the law, but we don’t, so if the Police are to marshall it they have to use their resources to best effect. Some say this is not it and I have to agree. It’s like the 30MPH limit on Stockport Road. Strange place with limited pedestrians clear veiw etc but it also has a Tameside “traffic flow monitor” watching it.
I find it impossible to believe that John Brooks, Grimpeur and George NEVER exceed the speed limit! I bet you’ve all have had an unblemished driving licence from the day you passed your test too! If this van is to help reduce accidents why not put it where the accidents happen? As far as i am concerned it is revenue, pure and simple.
Speed cameras are a deterrent,if they catch a speeding motorist then they have failed in they`re job of deterring someone from speeding.
Plenty of temporary warning signs should be placed on the pavement and if motorist`s are still being caught then they have no argument against the points and fines.
You should try being me, you would see the need for a speed camera on this stretch of road (at bottom of Doctor Lane) How would you feel if you had a baby in a pram and had to wait a further 30 minutes in the freezing snow for a bus (for an essential appointment for him) because you couldn’t get across the road to the bus stop for 20 minutes because selfish drivers a/ were speeding, b/couldn’t indicate c/didn’t have lights on. Luckily my child is older now and the weather is better at the moment but the 20 minutes wait is not an exaggeration it is a regular occurance. There’s plenty of us living on or near this stretch and something needs to be done. There isn’t a crossing between Delph and Waterhead which is just ridiculous especially as there is a school on this stretch. The law is the law and rules are rules, and there’s a reason for them simple. Stick to them and you won’t get a fine. On the same note can the Traffic Police Community Support Officers tell me who can I speak to about the need for a crossing. Someone is going to be killed.
well; i’m just waiting for that envelope to pop through my letterbox.
The stretch of road in question is an absolutely clear stretch, you can see very clearly ahead for a good distance and it is well away from the prep school! Prep school children should be kept in a safe enclosed area anyway!
No buildings or houses or gardens are on this stretch.
I was travelling to work and had followed this old dear going at 25 miles an hour from delph crossroads and unfortunately took the decision to overtake her along the stretch by the quarry turning. Too late l saw the white van with it’s back doors open and camera! l may not have actually been speeding when l overtook this very slow person but l guess the chances are that l was.
As some of the above writers mention; the Police would be far better off putting their resources into areas that require it.
We are already greatly inconvenienced as motorists by the tram works in Oldham and the whole system is a complete joke.
The adage that its okay to speed because everyone else is doing it is wrong. We have speed limits for a reason. Speeding kills lives. If you hit someone at 38mph you kill them, it is that simple. You have to live with it. Don’t speed. Save not just your life but someone who may be trying to cross this road. Treat other motorists how you would want to be treated, treat pedestrians how you would want to be treated crossing a road. If you get caught speeding then you pay the price and maybe, just maybe, you will think twice about doing it again. If we all didn’t speed, if we all obeyed the laws of driving, you’d find your insurance would go down. Now, you may say again that everyone else doesn’t obey the laws, so why should you. Because one person makes a difference, if each of you today say I won’t speed again, watch the ripple effect as it speeding becomes anti-social. Speeding is anti-social because it shows no respect for your own life and those who use the road with you. Stop it, there is a kids school here, there are families who live around here, stop moaning and take responsibility for the communities you live and drive through. Just because you don’t see houses, doesn’t mean that there aren’t any, hundreds of people live in Scouthead, many people cross this junction everyday from families to school classes to walkers. All of them are out enjoying their lives, reckless speeding could end them. I live in Scouthead, I drive in Scouthead and I never speed, and never will, I have seen the repercussions of people who do.
I wonder if you will all be saying the same when the next person is killed?
I think the argument against these vans is they seem to now be the default response to any complaint relating to road traffic accidents. It’s not always speed that causes accidents is it, for example 3 well publicised accidents near the Star Inn junction and a motorcycle fatality further down towards Delph in the last 5 years or so, and excess speed was not the cause of any of them. So why do they not look at other traffic control measures, improved signage, reprofiling junctions etc. rather than something that will just generate revenue.
Anyone on here that believes this van has anything remotely to do with road safety need their heads checking! The naivety of these morons is beyond me! Heres an idea why don’t we just put a camera van on every corner because there’s potential danger on every road… Please. Theres not been an incident on this stretch of road since it was built years & years ago & all of a sudden some of you think it’s a death trap!! I’m surprised you have time to post on here I bet you’re all at the petrol station filling your Jerry cans… Bunch of sheep!!
Has nobody noticed the skid marked on this stretch of road mainly from heavy vehicles. Only this morning at 7.30 I saw the vehicle in front of mine pull out and overtake the vehicle in front of him at one hell of a speed. There was a car parked on the opposite side of the road and a Bus approaching from the other direction. Have a bit of patience for pities sake.
The speed van is there for a reason, facts and research have found that people are speeding. It is a built up area, there is a school and people (like me) that live in scouthead are affected. The trouble is, drivers think that stretch of road is straight and clear, and therefore travel at speed, they then continue at this higher speed through the crossroads at The Star. Us residents have to put up with people driving through at speed, cars cannot pull out of the junctions safely, which is why there are so many accidents. If everyone kept to the speed limit WHICH IS 30MPH!!!!!! then there wouldn’t be a need for the speed camera, nor would there be so many crashes. I do think that other traffic calming measures should be taken like in other villages e.g a mini roundabout on the junction would slow the traffic down, one flashing sign just isn’t good enough!!
James Andrews doesn’t think there’s been an incident on this road for years? James this happen in March of this year: http://menmedia.co.uk/oldhamadvertiser/news/s/1488488_drivers-freed-from-vehicles-after-early-morning-crash. They got off lucky. Then in 2006, people died:
http://menmedia.co.uk/oldhamadvertiser/news/s/513629_when_is_something_going_to_be_done_about_danger_road
In between there has been many incidents. I hope James can now see why local people, like Local Resident and many more who have commented here, want something done to stop speeding. If a van does this, good but it would be better to have proper traffic calming measures on this stretch or even simpler, drivers who actually understand that 30mph means 30mph.
I got caught there and went in the speed awareness course held in manchester, there were 5 of us all from Saddleworth, all caught on the same stretch. Says it all really. It’s a money spinner.
This is such a divisive subject and affects so many people; I really doubt this comment will change anyone’s mind. However I think I can safely make the following assertions:
Almost all of the comments focus on a few points, which may support a general argument, but don’t recognise the complexities of this issue.
The majority of comments seem to criticise the enforcement of the law, rather than the suitability of the current speed limit.
The police are enforcing existing laws.
It is rare for 30mph limits to be observed rigidly.
In my experience, speeding in 40mph zones seems to be much less common.
Most accidents occur at significantly lower speeds than the maximum limit; usually the motorist will brake ahead of an accident; and so statistics about death rates and impact speeds should arguably not be based around hitting another road user at the maximum speed.
There are other hazards on this particular stretch of road, such as parked cars.
This area passes a school. It is rare for the speed limit to exceed 30mph in a school zone.
If a substantial proportion of motorists are speeding by more than a few miles per hour, it could surely be argued that the current limit is too low.
If accidents are relatively low, despite frequent speeding, that potentially strengthens the case for a change.
Political pressure can sometimes encourage a local council to reduce a speed limit.
I suspect the fear of being blamed for an accident makes it unlikely that a local council will increase the speed limit of a road, even if safety improvements are made.
If the speed limit were to be increased to 40mph, some motorists may continue to speed.
There is a common belief that a reduced speed limit is always safer.
There is a common belief that speeding is not dangerous.
Driving at the speed limit in some circumstances can facilitate and even encourage another motorist to perform a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre.
Driving at the speed limit behind a speeding car, can allow a gap for another motorist to ‘push’ into, from a side road. Some motorists ‘push in’ despite forcing the non-speeding car to slow down.
Lowering and enforcing speed limits in one area may slightly increase journey times and encourage a motorist to speed, further along their journey.
It is rare to hear of police taking action against motorists who are narrowly over the speed limit.
The speed limit is well known, and is clearly signposted.
Speeding is a crime. The punishment for breaking the law is well publicised.
Firstly, clearly James Andrews is from Mars, I have never read such tripe!!! local residents know exactly what the issue is here at the junction of Doctor Lane, Platting Road with Huddersfield Road S P E E D!!!!!!
Just 2 weeks ago there was a serious accident at this junction resulted in 2 persons in hospital from their injuries. I am actively campaigning council, police, press and local Councillors/MP to try and draw their attention to the speed problem on this stretch of road. So far I have only had one reply, Cllr Alan Roughley is aware of the issue here and is trying to wake the sleeping heads at OMBC to the problem, thank you councilor. There has been well in excess of 500 speeding notices issued in the short period of time this very welcome van has been attending this site, which just proves there is a desperate need for a permanent camera AT THE JUNCTION of Doctor Lane, Platting Road Huddersfield Road.
The main problem is the traffic escaping out of Oldham, the struggle through all the roadworks, the long drag out up the hill stuck in slow moving traffic, then suddenly a clear road, you put your foot down who cares about the school and locals I just have the need for speed! That is the mentality of these drivers, they simply do not care.
Speed becomes even more apparent around 10 - 11 at night when it appears there is a nightly race from Oldham to Huddersfield, cars are passing at speeds well in excess of 60 or 70MPH (yes I did say 70!).
Clearly the moaning people replying here is simply out of anger because they were caught and now have 3 points and a £60 fine, none seen to admit the fact they received the fine because they were in excess of 30MPH or are even sorry, many a money spinner, crazy people!
However if you are not from around these parts I will say something in only your defense, if traveling out of Oldham on the A62 how would you know the speed limit is 30MPH through Scouthead? There are plenty of signs coming the other way into Oldham, pretty flashing lights telling you are in excess of 30 because you are incapable of looking at your speed just through your steering wheel, but you wouldn’t know this would you as there is nothing , not even a sign to warn about the dangerous junction you are approaching!
I take the time to stop and thank the van crew every time I see them, good on them, may they long reside there until OMBC get their act together and place permanent speed cameras at this junction.
Irrespective of the speed being what some people may call low, the Speed limit is as it is! This is again people not taking responsibility for their own actions nobody pressed the accelerator for you, you did it!!!!
You have read and understand the Highway Code have you not?
The van is parked on your approach; it has signage all over it how on earth can you be caught speeding when you are driving past it???? Maybe you need your eyes testing also? Complete imbeciles
Being realistic a number of people have been sent on Speed Awareness courses this is obviously dependent on the Speed that you are doing and if you have been caught Speeding in the past, what more of a chance do you want? It cost’s £80.00 no points and you realistically get off scot free £20.00 more than the Fixed Fine for Speeding. Stop whinging about it and cut your Speed!!!!!
Oh yes, I have been prosecuted for Speeding, however I did not get the chance to go on a Speed Awareness course. I took my punishment for breaking the Speed Limit, live with it people DON’T SPEED, problem solved!!!
George. i did admit i was speeding, guilty as charged, didnt think i was whinging!!!!
i also said it worked for me being charged as i now drive at 30mph. i didnt say it was a money making thing, but they could make more in other ways should they wish to.
im not aware of a school on that stretch, maybe i do need my eyes testing!!!
im not against punishing people speeding, so maybe you have misunderstood my post???
i live on a 30mph road on a sharp bend and people come round that at nrly 40mph scare the hell out of me! i wish they would have some vans on mossley road.
Im all for catching people speed including myself, if you dont speed you dont get charged simple, i agree. I was just pointing out they have been there months and if they wanted to make money are there plenty opportunites in oldham.
More signage on that road would help to remind mere mortals as myself what the speed limit is.
‘More signage on that road would help to remind mere mortals as myself what the speed limit is.’
Well, that would make sense. However you then hit snag such as this nonsense. http://www.saddleworthnews.com/?p=3174
‘I find it impossible to believe that John Brooks, Grimpeur and George NEVER exceed the speed limit! I bet you’ve all have had an unblemished driving licence from the day you passed your test too!’
I can’t speak for the others, but yes, I sometimes exceeded the speed limit in the past, and have had points on my license. Guess what - they were *my* fault. I am man enough to accept that, rather than whinging about being unfairly treated.
George.
You’ve never had a speeding or parking ticket means you have never been caught. Nothing to crow about. As the army saying goes; The good conduct medal is for 15 years of undiscovered crime!!
To the other angelic residents of Saddleworth
Everyone gets something wrong at some time either intentionally or otherwise so all of the “It’s a crime, deal with it” comments just bore me. Look in the mirror and tell me about the blameless life you lead.
I realy thought this thread showed the site was back up and running but reasoned debate went out of the window after about the third comment replaced with vitriol, finger pointing and crowing.
Everyone knows you should not speed but to cross the road you need a pedestrian crossing, to slow traffic you need a “visible” deterrent. If you are concentrating so far ahead to see a speed camera you will not notice the small child ten yards in front.
Putting an unadvertised temprorary camera just catches individuals and does not provide a permanent deterrent.
Anyway, rant over, bring it on.
‘If you are concentrating so far ahead to see a speed camera you will not notice the small child ten yards in front.’
Quite. Slow down, take the worry about speed cameras out of the equation and instead concentrate on not running children down. It’s a very simple process.
This van is ideally situated.
The stretch of road that it is pointed at (between high moor quarry entrance and star inn crossroads) goes past a nursery school, with bright yellow paint on the road to remind you so. Let’s take a tour:
The view from the speed camera position: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.548921,-2.047238&spn=0.001235,0.002671&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.548921,-2.047238&panoid=omHjuRKh6Id-zfek_gs_JQ&cbp=12,99.14,,0,9.94
Note parked vehicles on the left.
50 yards along, in the region where the speed camera is snagging people: http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.548885,-2.04567&spn=0.000002,0.000974&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.548892,-2.046362&panoid=V3fQfVBAjzTKRwicTy9MfQ&cbp=12,99.14,,0,9.94&z=19
Gosh, what’s that sign on the left?
Another 50 years along:http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.548871,-2.044857&spn=0.000002,0.000974&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.548868,-2.045173&panoid=5HczmHI6qXJur1NRyqrPCg&cbp=12,97.07,,0,6.95&z=19
Lots of yellow paint on the road and a pretty traditional looking school house.
“very clear stretch of road” “Free from parked cars” “free from…. population”. I disagree.
I commute along this stretch of road every day and routinely either get dangerously overtaken or aggressively tailgated for going at the posted speed limit. This happens when there are parents collecting their children from school, and the occasional child running along the pavement.
I live in Marsden, further along the A62. In the past few weeks not one, but two serious accidents have taken place on the A62 in Marsden involving children (the most recent one of those was very tragic - a boy with learning difficulties ran out into the road into the path of a motorcyclist. The pregnant female motorcyclist miscarried her child, and the boy was injured. Thankfully the HGV behind the motorcycle was able to stop). Speed was not a factor in either incident, but it does not bear thinking about what the outcome would have been if it had been so.
How can someone complain about a speed camera on a known dangerous road past a nursery school?